Ok, WOW TX. First off, yes, with a CENTERFIRE rifle you would have a greater kill. We are not talking about that nor arguing that point. Your range is 300+ yards with a CENTERFIRE. We are talking about Muzzleloaders. From what you wrote you didnt read my entire post. Your quote on primitive weapons. Fine then lets throw out the INLINES. This is the problem not scopes. INLINES is what making muzzleloaders shoot further and faster. You want primitive? Then get a sidelock with round ball ammo and limit it to a 1x power. Your range then would limit to under 100 yards and the scope is going to give no one the advantage as open sights. You cannot argue the primitive point only with scope or no scope level. As for comparing differents states that is BS comparing Elk huntiing. Montana has the third highest pop of elk in the US and a successe rate of less than 30 percent. And we can use what ever we want. Even the archery hunters can use their really fancy sights. This argument has tooo many holes in it. You want primitive then use primitive. Don't halfa$$ it. Go back to sidelocks, round balls, open sights and throw out inlines.