Originally Posted by
josh...just josh
I have to admit, I am a nerd when it comes to ballistics. I try to read every single thread or article on bullet performance that I come across. One thing that I have read a few times on this forum is that BC isn't as important to us as it is to centerfire guys. I would tend to disagree...
I still maintain the BC is not an upper most consideration in the selection of a ML bullet even a modern ML bullet. I can say that because I limit myself to a max 200 yard shot and even then the conditions need to be perfect. Bullets that have a BC of or near the .200 area work well in my world. The reason I say that is because i need a bullet that will perform equally well from 30 yard to 200 yards... A lot of the pointy high BC bullets do not exactly do that. They certainly perform well in the longer ranges but tend be pencils at the closer ranges. The bullet no mater what the BC must be accurate from 30 to 200 yards. If that is the case using a 'point blank rabge' calculation can easy take care of drop. Wind is still the biggest factor shooting ML's long distance.
A guy shooting a 300 win mag with a comfortable 200 yard zero doesn't have to think about what his bullet is going to do in most hunting situations. bullet drop isn't issue for him until 400-500 yards, far beyond the range of most hunting shots.
I am or was a 300 Win Mag shooter... using 200 grain Nosler Semi round Nose Partition bullets and 200 grain Sierra BTSP bullets. 200 yards shots were not that big of a deal and again using 'PBR' the 300/400 shots were not that difficult - considering only drop - but again adding in wind really increases the the calculations.
Even for the guy shooting the best of what modern the black powder world has to offer, bullet drop becomes an issue at 150ish yards. Replace that slick jacketed 45 cal bullet with a 50 cal hunk of lead, and inches of drop can become feet. BC is very important for black powder guys.
Yes, but know - i am shooting a poor bc .458/300 grain BC bullet for elk hunting or even a .503/460 grain lead conical and shooting 200 is not a big deal at all if you have done your part...
The .458/300 grain is sited in to zero at 150 yards which makes it 2.5" high @ 100 and 7.3" down at 200. I can easily make those adjustments.
Even the 460 lead conical is sighted in to zero at 135 yards can be extendend to 175 yards very easily.
In all of this I have not even mentioned 'bullet drop compensating' scopes that make it even easier.
In my world - my biggest fear about shooting 200 yards with a ML is not elevation accuracy, the bigger concern are the different wind influences on the way to the target and the energy that remains at thos distances - especially if you are shooting a light weight bullet.
If anything is less important to us than centerfire guys I would have to say that it is sectional density and expansion. A guy that shoots a deer with a .243 and has no expansion is going to have a worse day than a guy that shoots a deer with a .452 with no expansion.
I would certainly agree with this statement... My only point is do not shoot a bullet that will not perform, because there are bullets out there will perform equally well from short yardage to long yardage. You just gotta find them.
I think that the next step in muzzleloader development will be smaller, more aerodynamic bullets.
I would disagree to a point... i am not willing to give up energy for light bullets that can not maintain velocity at longer ranges or the ability to fight wind movements over the longer ranges.
I don't know why a manufacture hasn't made a fast twist (1-15" or so) .45 muzzleloader. There are some great .358 bullets made for the .35 rem (that need a little faster twist) that have a BC in the .3-.4 range and mmp makes a .358/.45 sabot. I've seen where guys with .45's have been pushing 180gr bullets in the 2400-2500 ft/s range. That is getting close to modern centerfire range!
I can only speak for myself but I am not really interested in the smaller caliber bullets in a big game hunting ML. I am shooting a .40/200 grain Lehigh HP from either a 45 cal ML or a 50 cal ML @ 22/2300 fps and even at 200 yards it is losing to much energy and suffers wind drift at a greater rate than i would like.
I also wonder why nobody has tried making a "bottleneck" chamber. If you look at centerfire cartridges you'll see that the biggest jump in performance came when they went away from straight walled cartridges. Short, wide columns of powder burn much better than a long, skinny one. Why not make the barrel a few hundredths bigger at the breech plug?
Can not comment on this one - I do not have enough personal information although Lehigh Dave has Discussed this a bit and even suggested that his new Knight breech plug might offer a little bit of the 'bottle neck' theory.
I think the greatest limiting factor in muzzleloading performance in the future will be DNR regs (as some states have found), but that doesn't mean we shouldn't push the envelope whenever possible.
At what point do we reach to far and might as well just shoot a center fire. If you want the 'one shot' thought just get a Ruger #1 and shoot a 308 shell.
Where do you guys think we are going?
I personally gave up shooting centerfire to shoot ML's, actually i started shooting a ML to extend my hunting season - then at some point the disease took over. I no longer shoot centerfire as ML shooting is less expensive and I do not have time or the urge to reload anymore.... I like the thought of reloading and then pulling the trigger. Plus the CHALLENGE to shoot my ML as well as I can shoot my centerfires.
Manufactures are going to push the envelope - they have to - to continue to sell rifles... sorta like the advent of the 'short mag' for a lot of folks it is a new gun abd they gotta have one.
My fear - we are going to push it to far...