Yea txhunter I knew there was a big winter kill around 44. I agree with you on the 61. Even on the last hunt if its snowing there will always be the big ones waiting till the last chance to get down, right??? I'm going to look at the lowest elev. still in 61 and see what that is. If there is cover they might stay there awhile!!! I've also heard 61 has alot of cover. I would figure it to be oakbrush. Hard to glass in.