Here is my clarified opinion of the 30-30 Win. Firstly it is an anemic cartridge as a factory loading. That is a given. It cannot be improved upon very much by handloading because of the weak case. That is another given. Most people buy a 30-30 rifle for the wrong reason. Either some pimple faced kid at Wal Mart says it has " killed more deer than any other cartridge" or " it will shoot right through brush" , they buy it because it is cheap, or they get it because Grandpa had one. At any rate most people who buy them give no thought whatsoever to ballistics, performance and the game they are hunting. So now we have an uneducated hunter using an inferior tool. I don' t see why anyone in their right mind would ever recommend a 30-30 for anything nor a 44 Rem Mag rifle for that matter unless they made it clear to specify short range shots. I used to live in a hunting club. I spent 10 years tracking wounded deer. The two cartridges the wounded the most deer hands down were the 30-30 Win shot at anything over 100 yards and the 223 Rem at any range. Most were good hits too. So yes I have a strong dislike for the cartridge, and yes I have used one and taken deer with it. However, with so many better choices out there the only thing I use mine for now is a doorstop.