Frizz,

Let me be blunt about this.....are you saying the problem with the use of the .30-30 is the fault of the cartridge? Or the user? They are not one and the same! So let' s first make sure we understand which YOU believe is the problem.

Do you believe the .44 Rem Mag is sufficient to cleanly kill a deer? And if so to what range, (or more importantly at what range does it CEASE to be an effective killer of whitetail deer)?

Exactly what cartridge do you consider to be a minimum for cleanly killing whitetail deer? (And at what range does it cease to be effective?) What is YOUR cartridge for cleanly killing whitetails? Do you have a range limitation? And with what load? Is that also effective on extremely windy days, or not? And would that be whitetails typical of those found in Florida or Maine...for instance. (A 120 pound whitetail or a 250 pound whitetail?)

You are right about at least one assertion. Any cartridge that has been used to a great degree to kill game will also by sheer fact of numbers be involved in more woundings than a cartridge that is little used. And yes a cartridge with extra energy can turn a marginal hit into an effective killing shot. (But the down side of that argument can be equally stated as a heavier recoiling rifle may well lead to more marginal hits to begin with. See how easy it is to twist any argument to suit your " purpose" !) But the fact of the matter is that the fault is in its' use.....not in its' ballistics. If we were to believe that the .30-30 does not have sufficient energy to cleanly kill whitetails...how would you explain the large numbers of whitetails killed with relatively small bore black powder rifles used in the early years of the colonies? These rifles produce energy levels (as measured in foot pounds) that don' t even measure up to most modern handgun rounds, especially as you move further from the muzzle...(inefficient round balls)!

I stick to my original assertion. The .30-30 and all of it' s peers are sufficient in the hands of a responsible user.....and nothing is sufficient if you are not responsible! If you have had many negative experiences with the .30-30 on whitetails....yes I question your responsibility!