thanks for info on LW WIDE seat at 21 inchs.with heavy clothes that should help as my friends said the regular LW was awful to sit in with or without heavy clothes on .most were 6/1 and 230 pds.........

my summit 180 max is 22 inchs roughly inside.
the summit SURROUND seat i feel is best out there for sitting.
i tried it this week at 10 above here in pa coyote hunting and way its made to SURROUND you keeps wind off your kidneys and side.

i am big COMFORT person as i am getting up in years.at 18 i could sit on any seat and tree limb at times.not anymore.comfort is no. 1 to me and do to lack of bucks in pa. do to all doe killing etc you have to sit all day for days now if you want chance to see a deer.
going out at 7 am and back at noon with buck is long gone here in wmu2g of pa.
i agree with you on seat against tree thing, thats no good,been there done that too.
with surround seat and foot rest on 180 MAX i can pull seat away from tree and LEAN back.this is very comfortable.
also i try to find tree that leans just a little back up 20 ft.this allows MORE leaning back as you sit.

i heard that LW may be going to china to try to lower cost of stands.when i was looking at LW i liked it even tho i did not know about width seat problem and seat.
what changed my mind was difference in cost from over 400 dollars to 286 for summit .3 extra pds of weight did not seem a problem for me.also when i sat in SURROUND SEAT from summit it was all over.
i thought sproul, take the surround seat from summit and put on the LW but then i would be up to over 500 dollars,could almost buy 2 summits for price of 1 LW ,so i went with summit 180 max.

i think LW is real nice stand and i hope going to china, if thats true does not reduce the quality of their stands.

thanks sproul