Thanks again VAhuntr. I took a look at the second site you posted and it reminded me of several climbers my father made (when I was younger) from bridge steel. These things were HEAVY (probably 50lbs.), but when put on a tree....talk about room (usable foot platform 2.5' x 3') and security. Being a physicist, by training, my father was able to make these BEASTS balanced enough, once attached to a tree, climbing was a breeze. These things would fit around a tree, anywhere from 12" to 3' in diameter. He still has them but are currently being used a outboard motor stands and other support stands in his garage.