Which the deer will never notice. Good shot placement with a 30-30 at 150 yards will kill them as dead as they need to be killed. As I said before if you don,t like the 30-30 don,t buy one. However if you would have had the success with the 30-30 that We who use them have had then nobody will convine me not to use it when I feel conditions are right for this old tool of deer hunting. I traded in my last 30-30 a few weeks ago because I was short of money to pick up a new rifle that I had on layaway. When times are better I may replace it with another. Or I may not as I have other tools that will do just as well. IF I DO MY PART. Same as the 30-30.