yes i was referring to the 338win,the ultras are flinch starters for most men,if i was shooting game that required more gun then the 300s (which isint on this continent) i would bring the holland.i have had 2 wbys ,just never clicked with me,although i was moments away from a 378 several years ago,good thing the wife was with me.if i had to go above the 375 h&h ill go the 458 lott.