ok, maybe i set my expectations to high. Lets just say 300 or so yards instead of 500. The only reason i was going with 500 was just throwing out a yardage that might be atainable out west elk hunting. Around this area would be more like 300 max in most places and I most under that. Well just looking for brand recommendations in 300 win mag and a scope that would work good out to 400-500 yards. Thanks for the recommendations and this would be a hunting rifle. Not for competition. Maybe I was a little far with the 500 yards but i figured out west i could see shots that far. The only way I would take that kinda shot is if i was confident in it and had practiced that range and the conditions were right.