im usually at about 12 for archery and havent had problems being busted, i have ladder stand that are 10' but havent had problems either, ive killed more deer off the ground on last minutes set ups than my tree, but i have passed more in the tree than on the ground. usually if im ground hunting im out for meat. i like on the ground or not very high for gun, so i can get longer shots. cliffs are great for gun season also.