I know. It is just a catch 22 position. We need them for the ground. They need us to take deer of the ground. One without the other won't work. It just erks me to hear something like the post I quoted saying hunters should not expect a farmer to subsidize a hobby then charge lease rates to make money. Well what is a deer worth to you??? If the damage is that bad and needed controlled, then the hunter has a valued service to provide. Is a farmer willing to pay say $200 a head for each deer harvested as to hear them talk that would be a huge savingings according to the amount of crop damage claimed to be the result of deer. Hell no they won't, but they expect us to pay $10 an acre (160 acre min) to hunt a ground that has maybe 20 acres of huntable ground.