Originally Posted by
Cornelius08
"Oh, ok then since we only have a handful of hunters on our game lands and other public land up here anymore, even the first day, and there are thousands of acres without a man track on them we should count those out of the areas being hunted?"
Unlike the 11 square miles mentioned, Its huntable land. The land being discussed was a particular parcel and not general statewide "underhunted" pockets. But the effects of the harvest on that particular land was the point as you know.
" I guess using that goofy method you and bluebird want to use we are probably harvesting in the neighborhood of 50-60 per HUNTED square mile up here in the northern tier."
We werent discussing the northern tier. We were discussing 3 square miles under strict and specific management conditions. Conditions which arent expressed statewide...across the northern tier...in Timbuktu.... or the other 11 square miles in question.
"It is you and bluebird that are twisting the facts to suit your goofy and misguided agendas."
Insult all you like. Its pretty much cut and dried common sense to anyone not trying to sell a failed deer management plan anyway. I cannot speak for bluebird, but my only "agenda" is to see reasonable and responsible deer management taking place and implemented by a non-extremist management agency. And I shouldnt need to fight for that, it should be a "given" with any reasonable management plan.
The problem is, and likely why you and many others don’t understand deer management is, that good and wise wildlife management takes a lot more then just commonsense. It takes knowledge born of scientific research and studies. It also takes looking back at past history and learning from both past mistakes and successes.
I can assure you that there is no one in this whole state that wants the best possible deer management any more then I do. I am a very avid deer hunter, I think deer hunting probably about as much as anyone alive. There isn’t a simple day that I am not planning and thinking about deer hunts, and I never have nor ever intent to hunt any place other then this state. Though, I might include some hunting in New York, only because it is close, after I retire. I have nothing to gain from timber, or birds or anything else you think are being promoted over deer and hunter interests. I wouldn’t care if all the trees died and fell over tomorrow if it weren’t for the fact they are so badly needed for wildlife populations, with deer right on the tip top of that list of wildlife desperately needing trees, and lots of them.
I am not a bird watcher, though I have learned to see birds and know just how important they really are to having a healthy environment. In fact, I know darn well if we had managed for the maximum number of shrub layer bird species and populations over the past half century we would have many times more deer today then we presently have, and probably more then anytime in the past couple decades.
I don’t pay much attention to wildflowers either, though I have learned to identify most of them. I also know that when you have both a diversity and abundance of wildflowers you also have high quality food that supports way more deer then habitat where the wildflowers are absent or even just lacking.
The real problem is that you, and many people like you, simply know nothing about how all aspects of nature are import to the entire natural community of wildlife, including the deer and especially the deer. You people just have this totally goofy concept that the deer are being killed off, or reduced, so that someone can have more trees, birds or flowers but you are wrong, completely wrong and stupidly wrong.
Many of those eco nuts, you talk about are doing nothing more then trying to get the habitat balanced so that we can have more deer then we presently have, in fact more then we have had for a long time in some parts of the state. They are just people smart enough to know that you will never have more deer, for more then short time periods, unless you first have better habitat that includes the correct species and regeneration of both trees and wildlife flowers and also has the habitat to support good bird populations. Those ARE NOT separate issues, as the uneducated think, but all totally and completely connected one to the other. To view them as separate issues is nothing more then proving ignorance of natural knowledge and education.
It is the people like you, with your lack of knowledge about nature, that have been and will continue to keep the deer populations at levels that are lower then they could be and should be. The deer populations will continue to remain lower then they could and should be until people like you learn that they simply don’t know what they are talking about and allow the professionals the opportunity to improve the future for the deer, the habitat and the hunter.
But, I know some of you are just not smart enough to ever allow that to happen.
R.S. Bodenhorn