ORIGINAL: Screamin Steel
ORIGINAL: DougE
ORIGINAL: Screamin Steel
ORIGINAL: DougE
ORIGINAL: Screamin Steel
ORIGINAL: DougE
That area was flown over in 2005 and DCNR does pellet counts every year.Last year I walked through thatarea with the district foresterand he claimed the owdd was between 8 and 10 based on that information.On top of that,that shelterwood cutwas on a ridgtop which is almost devoid of deer during the winter when most of the overbrowsing occurs.All I did was show the man an area where DCNR has been cutting without having to fence.
The habitat is coming back,no doubt about it.
Awsome. Now let's see a SERIOUS attempt at reducing antlerless allocations, and let these deer numbers get above 10 owdin alot of places. Aww, wait. Then we'd be back to overbrowsing again, soI guess we are going to see the low dd forever, to satisfy the big timber and birdwatchers. Guess we get hosed anyway you slice it.
Why would anyone want to put the habitat back into the state it was before.You honestly don't care one bit about the habitat do you?You want easy hunting so you can be done by noon on the first day.
Again, you are carefully avioiding the key issue here, because you obviously are stuill in denial and don't want to face up. I'll puit it in big bold type for you so you can't ignore it this time.
IF AN AVERAGE DENSITY OF 27 DPSM COMPLETELY DEVASTATED THE OAKS IN YOUR ENCLOSURE (3 DEER IN 70 ACRES) AND IF ACCORDING TO DCNR WE ARE JUST STARTING TO SEE IMPROVEMENT AT 10 OWDPSM, THEN THIS IS THE FUTURE OF DEER HUNTNIG IN PA. THESE NUMBERS WILL BE MAINTAINED OR CONTINUE TO BE REDUCED IN FAVOR OF TIMBER REGENERATION AND ECOWEENIE LOBBYISTS. WE HUNTERS GOT HOSED, AND HUNTER SATISFACTION IS NOT A CONSIDERATION IN DEER MANAGEMENT EQUATION ANYMORE. WE HUNTERS ALL BUT SINGLEHANDEDLY FOOTED THE BILL FOR WILFLIFE MGT IN PA FOR NEARLY A HUNDRED YEARS, AND NOW WE AMOUNT TO NOTHING MORE THAN PEST CONTROL SERVICE FOR THEPGC AND DCNR. As for the study in TX, you always leave out the details in your feeble attempts at debate, Mr Twister. I cited the studty to show that a whitetailed deer gladly grazex on cool season grasse when available (you obviously donn't spend much time around ag land in winter, or you'd already know that) and I then cited sevarl key species of native cool seaosn grasses found abundantly in PA that are preffered grazing species. Obviously in hard winters with prolonged dep snow cover, browse dependence is exagerated, but much of our state rarely sees such winters, and much of our ag land supplies food year round.
Like I stated before,you don't have the knowledge or experience to know what you're talking about.Every area is different.If the surrounding habitat is poor,it takes far fewer deer to have a continued impact on the habitat.All that exclosure showed is how deer key in on their preferred foodsources first.Deer are picky eaters.Without good habitat,they'll quickly devistate any new preferred growth,even at low dd's.TYhat's what we're faced with in the northern tier because we had decades of overbrowsing.SoYes,in order to get regneration of preferred species,we have to suffer with very low deer densities.That's all because we insisted on more deer than tyhe habitat could support for way too long.
Oh, so you admit that the low deer densities are here to stay? Glad you finally realized that all the empty promises about herd growth were just that. Now if you can et your buddy, RSB to admit it, too. We are living in the future of PA deer hunting. Herd numbers will be kept low to grow commercial hardwoods and keep the birdwatchers happy. The only way it will ever change is by a regime change in Harrisburg, or so many of us quit we just can't keep the herd down anymore. They obviously won't allow the herd to rebound only to start the reduction all over again. I'd sayI have a pretty good handle on it, Doug. Every hunter on this MB is as qualified to comment on the deer situation as you suppose yourself to be, though you seem to enjoy putting yourself up on a high horse in your own mind. (Pun intended.) You really don't have to try to appear condescending to bolster your own arguments. We all worship you anyway, esp whenwe found out about your 17 year streak with a bow. I'mordering the Doug Ell Bowhunter Extraordinaire poster for the den wall.
I certainly have a much better understanding of all this than you do.There's no question about it.I've spent countless hours in the field over the past 7 years with many experts.All you do is listen to the whining on the internet and chime in once in a while with your misguided views.
I absolutely admit that we'll never have deer densities even close to what we used to have.Why go back to what put us in this mess to begin with?I don't ever remeber the PGC ever claiming the goals would be higher than 21 dpfsm.