It's the Mark V, not the howa/vanguard, which I know guys do great things with those vanguards, and you can get the sub-moa versions, but in .243 I'd really like to see 1/2" groups @ 100yds, we'll see.

Too flat for the z800? geez, that z800 is awefully flat, guess that's the .257wby for ya!! I guess they just assume not many z600 people are gonna want to shoot that far, or want 14x in a z600. Though I used their calculator on their website and just couldn't make it work. I think I'll be able to figure out the mil-dot no sweat, I'm using it more for long distant shooting than ranging, I have the range finder for that, I more so wanted to just know where those dots will be down range, so I'm not gonna be holding over 4' or something, I'll make it happen with the mil-dot, solved my dilemna, quite happy with the set up.