Chap I have only shot 1 deer w/ muzzloader asI just started this yr w/ 150 gr 777 and a 250gr shockwave at 15 yds slightly quarting to went in right shoulder and exited mid rib cage off side. I couldn't be more pleased in as 45cal out about double that size I did not recover bullet but appears to not have fragmented at all.Why do you think 150gr is too hot a load?These shockwaves had the yellow tip are there shockwaves w/ different color tips that are made different. I am going to do plenty of experimenting this summer at the range w/ different powders and bullets. The accuracy of these shockwaves is amazing 1"-2" groups at 100yd almost hard to try other combos out w/ those results