Many years ago I use to shoot for the shoulder cause I didnt like to track them, reckon I was to lazy. To much meat damage going for the shoulder. I shoot right behind it, they wont run far. For years I shot the 425gr buffalo bullet out of my 54 cal TC Hawken, the only deer that I lost with that gun was a 11pt that i made the classic gut shot with. I found that buck several weeks later about a half mile away during gun season. Then i bought a white shooting system 50 cal and used 430gr super slugs, I cant recall every losing a deer with that gun. Now im shooting a Optmia elite 50 cal and using 250gr bondedshock waves. I have only shot one deer with the sw's an 8pt at 50 yards and it preformed perfectly. Time will tell. I still kind of new to the sabots myself, I have always thought if it aint broke dont fix it. I do like playing around with different bullets and loads now.