ORIGINAL: spaniel
Then you won't mind me very respectfully taking exception to that
I have spent a lot of time on Doug's Savage Board over the past 2-3 years even though I don't own one (I like to keep informed on the newest technologies). Unless it's pretty cold out or you stay with conservative loads pretty darn close to what our "dirtburners" can do, you have to wait a good 15 minutes between shots for the groups to stay together. That may be OK in the field, but I like to shoot my guns a fair amount and 1 group/hour is NOT acceptable. This is the primary reason I do not own a Savage. Until they formulate sabots that can "'take the heat" or make it easier to shoot sabotless like some guys do, it's an imperfect compromise.
Quality-wise, ballistics/cleaning aside, I don't see a big advantage for Savage over T/C. There are some standard mods done to Savages if you're really serious about them, like the third pillar. They're both solid guns. Note also that the Savage is built on a centerfire platform -- if any other competitor entered the smokeless game they could leapfrog Savage quickly by designing a dedicated platform, kind of like T/C did to Knight in the inline business.
I have a Savage, a Knight Disc and a TC Omega and I have used the Savage 2 years now, this season and all last season. I agree about the 15 minutes, but there are some work arounds to that:
#1 is the barrel coolers that Harley inventedand Richard improved,
#2 is shoot sabotless by kurling a 50 cal bullet or buy a 45 barrel
#3 use an air pump run by a battery and just stick that down the barrel after your shot (I do this)
#4 shoot anyway and don't worry about the 1/2" to 1 inch loss of accuracy, which is what I do most of the time.
As for cleaningyou don't have to clean the Savage every time you shoot, I havenot cleaned mine once since the season started andI leave the bulletand powder in a weekor longer at a time. As for ballistics, that is not true that Savage is about the same, a savage will shoot 2350-2400 withmoderate recoil andthat loadhas a lot of energy and can reach out there to 200 no problem and 300 if you practice (I don't do that, 150 is plenty for me.). So those aresome of the differences between the Savage and regular MLers. Honestly back east hereshooting in woods and thick stuff, 150 max is all ya need and most bullets sighted in 3" high will get you there noproblem. Out west and the midwest shooting250+ yards, a Savage is just the ticket, since you can laser the yardage and the smack of a 300g bullet at 250 is devistating.IfSavage started marketing to the "Shotgun" only states on the advantages of shooting a smokeless 1 shot 100 accurate as heck rifle, they would sell a million of these in NY and Ill. Also a Savagecan be shot with light loadsand less recoil and used with kids andwomen. Honestly I like to use the Savage in regular rifle season, and the regular MLerin MLer season. I did that this year and I like that combo. Next year I think I am going to shoot regular MLer inML season, Savage in rifle season, and then inanterless only season after buck season, I am going to shoot percussion and FL up in Penna with my brother. Why? Just cause I can, just to keep each gun viable and not develop a favorite, and play/tune with different guns.
Also be aware on Doug's the people that answer most posts are the "hot rodders", which are guys that have 2 or 3Savages, spend $1000 on scopes, barrels, stocks, bedding,3rd pillar, etc. I shot mine stock, same gun I bought and put together day 1. It is accurate a heck in just this configuration, actually it is better than I am, that is why I bought a lead sled, since the gun was so much more accurate than what I was use to. On this site, wehave a lot more posters anda lot guys with only a few years of experience get in the mix and offer their experience and opinions, which is a better experience for the poster. OnDoug's Savage board, you can get coughtup in things and spend a lot of money for 1/2 inch of accuracy. Heck dead is dead, bullets are what kill, I like Savage accuracy, but there is a LOT to learn about the Savagegun before "getting good" with it (seating and compression). I think you can shoot book loads right out of the box and dovery well hunting with it. Also I think you can tune and fiddle around quite a bit, in fact Icall it a "mini ballistics lab", since you can duplex loads, shoot sabotless, etc, fiddle and fiddle for the last 1/2 of accuracy. Heck my gun shoots plenty accurate enough for me for hunting.I may get the tool that allows you to take the breech plug out without loosing the action screw, but I have marked mine, so I always screw it back in exactly where it was.
Chap