Thanks for the help guys!! Im not too concerned about other food sources as competition, we have 1,250 acres in SE. Ohio, other than the 20 acres of 85 day corn that the farmer we allowed to plant and the 10-12 acres of clover we will be planting in the fall, the 10 or so acres of rye wont have any competition from any other Ag crops or food plots from the 6,000 or so acres that border us except from the normal natural browse, our neigbors are what we call grass farmers, ( if they plant anything at all) and the mast crops usually get gobbled up pretty quick by the deer and the billion turkeys on our property. last winter the deer were digging up the grass on the logging roads like crazy for food, if the rye works we will plant all 17 looging roads in rye next fall and the clearings I am currently talking about in corn and leaving it stand all winter and it will also give us miles of rye. thanks again for the help. Pike,