see rybo that's the problem here in Va, oh they do drives alright! 100 hounds on them will get them on the hoof!! I hunt this way every saturday from Nov 15th to Jan 3rd...no problems with it, I enjoy it, but if you are lucky to have a few places where dogs are not used and never get to the places, then the deer should move more freely I would assume, but it just doesn't seem to happen...do you think in IL or IA or anywhere in the midwest, the deer still move after the rut in daylight hrs, or is it just like here?? Do deer move there in early Oct or are they just like here where you have to catch them moving and not sit and know that they are coming??