Firedawg, Naw, no hostility here. I just can' t stand those guys, and I run into alot of em, who claim they are the worlds best shooters/bowhunters. Yet they never get a deer. Then when you finally get to shoot with them you realize a blind man can shoot better than they do. I have had several self proclaimed Pro-shooters, at least in their minds, come down to shoot with my family at our 3D range and they stunk up the place so bad they never came back! When you talk the talk you better be able to walk the walk or you' ll get embarrassed. We offered to help em out with their shooting but they let pride get the best of em' . Too bad for them because the few that asked for help are now shooting great, have taken several deer with their bows since then and are darn good shots with their bows! I just remember the old saying, " Actions speak louder than words" . I let my shooting do my talking for me.