ORIGINAL: BrutalAttack
ORIGINAL: millagerobert
Just returned from guiding elk hunters for a 7 day hunt here in Central Idaho. Lots of nice bulls taken in the area we hunted last year, and lots of elk sign on trips in this summer and Labor day weekend. I went in 2 days ahead of the hunters on the 12th, and was met with not elk sign but wolves. A large wolf pack had come into the area and either killed or ran off almost every game animal in a 10x10 mile area. We hunted hard, covered almost every square inch of the country, and found only very little sign, and no sign that any elk were living in the area, only running through(no back and forth tracks). The hunters said they still had fun, but we know they were disappointed, and the outfitter is planning to cease all elk hunting trips for this unit in the future. We found lots of cow and calf elk skulls and kills with noses chewed off (indicator of wolves) and also 2 dead wolves with holes in skulls where other wolves had killed their own. In total we saw only 3 whitetail in an area of pristine elk, moose, and deer habitat. What a waste of great wild game habitat. Sportsman and wildlife agencies have worked hard and spent an untold amount of money and time to create the game herds in Idaho over the last century, only to have it all destroyed in a decade through the deceit and lies of the wolf reintroduction program, only 150 wolves proposed, now at least a few thousand, and no management plan being allowed due to 1 enviro judge in Montana, its a shame, and should be a crime. Where will the compensation come for the businesses lost and way of life destroyed by the misguided passions of a few. Lots of prime elk ground has been devistated, and what hasn't been yet will soon, trust me on that, I have moved my hunting from unit to unit to stay ahead of the wolves, but am running out of options now.
We were mad 4 years ago, we are taking matters into our own hands at this point. Don't give us any more BS about the elk adjusting, or the wolf populations controlling themselves, the only way out of this is through a massive thinning of wolf numbers, and elk recovery programs. Or maybe we should just give in and allow our ways of live and hunting to end, and our mountains to become dead zones where only hungry predators roam. If we all set back and do nothing, thats what will happen over the next 10 years.
Bleh another one of these slob ignorant hunter topics. Any half-way knowledgable hunter knows that if wolves move into an area, the elk totally change their routine and their patterns. Only an arrogant fool would believe that the elk aren't there just because
YOU didn't
see them.
Another thing people don't seem to realize is alot of the back country habitat really is marginal for deer and elk. There's a reason why you don't see many elk above 5000 feet. It's a short growing season and forage is usually the principal limiting factor.
The truth is, elk numbers were in free fall long before wolves were a twinkle in the tree huggers eyes. That's a symptom of decadent and agingclearcuts, near total fire suppession and lack of any other disturbance to fuel the seral shrub growth that provides quality elk forage.
If the habitat was where it should be, there would have been great numbers of elkinCentral Idahountil the wolves came in a slaughtered them all. Yet, we didn't see good numbers after logging was curtailed in the late 80s and the Clinton Roadless bill sealed the deal.
So don't give us this crap. Using wolves as your convienient scapegoat because
you couldn't get your hunters on elk. I see the numbers every day at work and right now what you have a problem with is you're no longer the #1 predator and wolves are now taking their share.
The smart elk are hiding out and walking on egg shells.
You're the one that isn't adapting.
I've gotten two bulls (336 and 314) since 2001 in a unit with the lowest historical elk numbers and highest wolf populations of any zone in region 2.
So spare us your sweeping generalizations.
Ignorant hunter??? I am a fifth generation Idahoan with 27 years hunting experience and the knowledge handed down to me by my father and grandfathers. The other guide working with us has 25+ years experience guiding elk hunters in Idaho, and our Outfitter has 50+ years experience in the elk woods with multiple record book bulls hanging in his home, so who is the ignorant one here. Like I have said before quit telling us what is happening in our woods when we know them better than anyone, we see it with our own eyes, and we know elk, so don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.
We know the elk aren't there because we know the area, seeing them has nothing to do with it. We also hunted from the top down, and the elk were ran out from the 2500 ft bottoms to the 5750 ft top, yes we did this on foot everyday, so don't give me any altitude or not in the right place excuse. Any competent person knows where to find elk sign, tracks and droppings etc.., and how to tell the age of both. When you have an area that used to be full of elk, and still has prime elderberry forage and other plants elk eat, and is full of ancient elk paths that are now starting to overgrow due to the elk being gone, any idiot can be sure the elk are gone. When you go into the winter range and see 12 elk instead of 1200, when all you find 10 miles from any road is elk skulls with the noses chewed of, you know who to blame. Winter kills and habitat loss doesn't bite the noses off from dead elk.
As far as adapting, I have moved with the elk, but the elk are running out of places to move, and I don't see how elk adapt to being killed. There still are elk, but not in the numbers they were, and not in all the places they should be, and it is getting worse every year, I know this because I spend 150 days a year in the woods. If you think any elk can get away from a wolf pack in snow then you aren't just believing what comes out of California you are smoking what they produce also.
People like you who have there head in the stand, or think they know what they do not are the problem. Wolves may not have wiped out the elk were you are, but without action trust me they will. No management program for a dominant predator that reproduces at the rate of the wolfs is just insanity. The hijacking of game management from the states by the feds and enviro groups will be the ruin of it all. Tell your story to the sportsman in our area that have lost their opportunities to fill their freezer, that their forefathers worked so hard and paid so much to make possible, or tell it to the outfitters who are going out of business, and the hunters who are no longer coming into areas spending money at local businesses.
I was for hearing all sides to this argument, but that was a few years ago, that time has come and past. So wake up, open your eyes, and see what the real agenda of the pro wolf groups is, or stick your head in the sand and wait there until they shove something up your @$$ also.