thanx Jeff, i was leaning towards the 444 just for a hair better trajectory, but now that i look it shoots a lighter bullet than the 450 or 45/70....i know the bigger the bullet the better the punch....the 450 definently does have the edge now that i look at the energy....

not needed for deer, but i like having backup rifles....or even use it as a primary rifle for big game...moose, bear etc if i ever get the chance....im the guy that always likes to be different...lol and love guns....im gunna have to stay single for a while after college....i got a long wishlist!!!