I got decent groups with them out of my White Umag, around 1.5" at 100 using a peep sight. I was shooting 110gr of 3F 777 and was getting around 1700fps. I plan on using them for my NM elk hunt next month. I got lucky and found some at a small gun shop in MA. I got 4 packs for just under $60 including tax. If these hadn't shot so well I would be using NE's or Bull Shop 460's.