ORIGINAL: gt2003
ORIGINAL: gleason.chapman
ORIGINAL: gt2003
What are your usual shooting distances? Mine are pretty much 75 yards maximum. They have been a great bullet for me. I too have shot them through shoulders and they held together. I also like the fact that I don't have to shoot a magnum charge. I only shoot 80 grains of 777 and a 220 grain dead center with excellent results. Every deer I have shot with them has either fallen immediately or run at the most 30-40 yards. So, I'll keep shooting them. The price is well worth it to me since I know I can count on them for excellent performance on game. Now, if I shot a lot, like most of you, I would definitely look for a less expensive bullet to "plink" with. Here is a picture of a fewrecovered from deer. The bullet on the left was shotalmost straight down through a buck at about 15-20 feet and it held together even at such a close range. Search recent posts and you'll find a lot more threads on the bullet.
Whatis the weight of the bullet on the left? It was 220g starting out, that close a shot it doesn't look like it fragmented, but held together and wrapped around itself.
Chap
Chap, I don't know the weight of the bullet. But, you are correct, at such a close range it pretty much wrapped around itself and did not appear to fragment at all.
I have also noticed with the dead centers that when they are shot at ranges of over 30 yards, they do not pancake as much as they appear to in the pictures. They actually maintain about 1/2 of their shank while the front 1/2 of the bullet kind of piles up on itself and spreads out to a certain extent versus pancaking out flat (like the bullet on the left). I would expect even better performance and likely deeper penetration when these bullets are shot at longer differences. Thoughts?
The soft lead expands on meat not bone, so that is good. The fact that they didn't fragment at 10-20 feet and folks say they shoot thru shoulders tells me that they will work from 0 to 175 no problem. If they are accurate in your gun, then go with them. I would not shoot them with 3 pellets or high charges. Spaniel testifies he got 30 deer with them, and he is still uses them, that is significant. If you can get a 2" group at 100 yards with them, man then go with them.
Here is how I rank bullets (I am letting my biases show here):
Strong Good non-fragmenting bullets
Barnes (all flavors)
Nosler Partitions
Gold Dots
OK bullet, if accurate in your gun
SW/SST 300g
DeadCenter
XTP (300g not 250s)
SST/SW in 200g
PB below 1200-1400 fps
Remington 45/70 bullets (fragment above 2000 fps, but excellent about 1800 fps)
Poor bullets
Powerbelts above 1500 fps(I didn't call your mom any names FG, I just called your bullet poor)
XTPs in 250g (fragment not every time, but some times, 250 won't shoot thru deer)
SW/SST 250g fragment sometimes, shoot thru like pencil with no blood trail, 250 yard recovery sometimes
any 240-250 all lead bullet (Knight, Cheap shot, yata) --pancakes out, therefore no shoot thru
hard cast bullets shoots thru with now expansion
I use this criteria to rank bullets:
1) accuracy (must be accurate, if you can't hit game over)
2) penetration and therefore weight retention (must be over 90% wt retention)
12" penetration to kill a human, therefore 12" at least to kill a deer, bigger game obviously require heavier bullets
3) expansion with shoot thru for blood trail, expansion to give HIGH volume wound channel
The Good top bullets do the first 3 things well. The OK bullets do most of the things well but have an issue here and there, but folks use them and have great results with them. I am not suggesting they change, cause they have adapted their shooting style to the bullets (i.e no oblique or frontal shots only sideways bow shots). The Poor bullets have issues that i would NOT trust them.
So these are my biases, but I reached them thru logic, reading and experience for most of these bullets I have read every review on MidwayUsa and Cabelas. For example MidwayUsa has over 30 reviews of the Remington 45.70 bullet, very good read. Most folks use them in the "guide gun" or 45/70 sidelocks, Sharps, etc. They are excellent at about 1800 fps. Push them with 3 pellets to 2000 or 2100 ya got issues of fragmentation. So basically reading. I like STRONG accurate bullets, they are doing the work. Like this recovered from a 6pt buck at 40 yards frontal shot, under hide in hind quarter, when thru the deer length wise. Long shank, perfect mushroom, nearly 100% weight retention, 300g Nosler Partition HP Protected Point, strong bullet. Sorry, your getting into my favorite topic and I am rambling.
Chap
