Please allow me to clarify!

The rut generally does not fall on gun seasons. My meaning is simply most of the rutting is done, although you can get rutting activity in that first shotgun season and you could possibly get secondary run in the December hunts. You could also get a late rut and then all trends are off. But generally, the heaviest part of the rut is done.

I do not hunt with an outfitter. I hunt private land in3locations: West Central in Scott Co. and S. Illinois in Union and Johnson counties.

In W. Central (I have only been there once), I saw 5-6 does per day and 1-2 bucks. Most were not shooters, but I had a 150 class 8 pt at 4 yds. that would not stop for a shot and an 180 class mainframe 8 with alot of kickers that was at 60 yds. I don't see as many deer in W. Central, but they are goods ones usually.

In S. Illinois, I've seen plenty of shooters in the 140+ range. I said about 20 total in 2 yrs. You got to remember that it is very open where I hunt and though I might see alot of deer and alot of shooters, they are often out-of range with a bow. It is not uncommon to see 100 deer in S. Illinois as they are virtually everywhere, at least in Johnson Co.

I do understand what you mean though, it is not as easy asmost peoplethink to kill a 140" deer, even in Illinois. Of course, I've only hunted with a bow to this point and this year will be my first muzzleloader hunt. I don't expect it to be much easier though as I'm sure the deer get wise at the crack of the first shot.

Good hunting to you BTW, Greene Co. where you hunt is very near where I hunt in Scott Co.