Thank you, everytime I hear a thwak I cringe now. Luckily these last few thwacks were just arrows grouped snug up against each other. I think the knock is probably a few inches in the shaft also. I didn't see it anywhere. Incidentally, I switched from carbon express to Cabelas Extreme Stalker, basically a cheaper renamed version of an Eason arrow. They have the Easton super knock on them that I can see easier and I think that is what is getting me in trouble, now that I can see what I was going for. Going to have to perfect the 5 spot now. NOT TOO SHABBY TALK ABOUT A BIRTHDAY PRESENT!