well, I see what you mean by saying you were off when shooting quarter size dots, on the other hand, 20 yds to most guys is not a chip shot at least for me it's not when shooting at a dot that size. so if you miss the dot but hit close, it's pretty darn good. Think about it, I mean how many times can you shoot the same way before you get tired or have some sort of movement. I don't have the pie plate mentality but I do have the softball one.