You didn't offend me at all Bronko....i think you are seeing some bleed over of my frustration is all...i've always prided myself as being a pretty darn good marksman at most anything i shoot...these dad burn muzzle loaders will humble a guy right now....

regarding the wad thing....i could see where a flat bottom bullet could perform better using a wad, but these Hornady bullets have a concave bottom, that are designed to flair out as the powder goes off and fill the riflings....do you think using a wad will help this style of bullet too?

i tried a few wads the other day, and just saw one more thing that could screw up myself....how do you keep that wad from going sideways on you getting it down the barrel? i tried sticking it to the bottom of the bullet and still wasn't certain how it acctuall sat on the powder....

i understand now the evolution of centerfire cartriges....these muzzle loaders are a pain in the arse!