frontier gander,I will just bet you are talking about that bullet that was the coming thing back in 1960 and now is as expensive as a good barnes all copper. Have you ever tried them with BH209? I suspect that with a good hot 209 that the ones around 300gr would work. I have never had any ignition problem with it that has turn up here and there and believe that a heavy bullet put down with good wad pressure would work. Lee