Probably a safe bet you do your load R&D froma lead sledoff a bench and use more that one sheet of T.P.per sitting in the Johnny...

I've "talked" with people like you before and can't know why I bother.

The whole point of my list is to show that I"ve found a lot of what others do as religion is highly un-needed. Have done the same things myself over the years, and there was a time I used bulk remmys or winchesters, bought factory and shot them for the brass, all kinds of stuff that lots of folks just do as normal. Have watched so called Pros fiddle and fuss over tenths of a grain difference in brass weight and think it means some bad mojo, I simply buy good brass and fugetaboutit.....you'd be surprised how many Experts baulk at the idea of spending good money on brass.

Idon't play your 1K game so if I could get a 5 inchgroupof cold bore shots at 1K I'd hafta call itgood 'nuff. Never gave adamn about punchin' organized paper or tryin' to kill anything at 1K so trying to talk to you on your so called level is a waste of my time. I'm responding to the Average Joe that started this thread looking for advice on how to work up loads. Did he mentionags at 1K? If he did then I missed it. Using the system that Newberry talks about gives me an easy way to work up a very functional load in an average rifle, nuthin' more, nuthin' less. If that ain't your gig then rock on with your up and down powder weights concurrent with seasonal changes...I really don't care.

I do TWO types of shooting, my kids and myfriends do the same two types of shooting. 1,) We HUNT and kill stuff, and 2.),we bust a lot of steel, rocks, jugs, ect. If you only bring a hundred rounds of ammo to my range out back then you run the risk of not having enough for the day.We work within the practical limits of the chambering in hand...meaning we don't stretch range beyond the effectivness of the bullet. We hardly ever roll up on a shooting bench anywhere just to burn powder and call it shooting. We do a lot of normal field position shooting and work oftenfrom rested field positions. Hitting what we are aiming at interests us much and work to that end. Pretty much what a lot ofAverage Joesdo....

We consider punchin' paper pretty boring and would just rather bust a rock or swing some steel. Loads are worked up with a hunting bullet and I use exclusively TSX's. Even though I can like buying good brass I really can't muchlike buying TSX's in the kind of volume we play with. For that reason and that reason alone I source a similar cheaperbullet that works with the same load. I attribute that to the calmness of the barrel in the sweetspot resulting from that bad word called OCW. My rifles stay zero'd for the TSX's and the swap bullets hit close enough to that zero/drop chartto consider it a wash. If my 168 grain TSX's hit within a 1 1/4 inchradius of centeredPOA at 500 yards I'm on target with that load. If the swap load, which is the inexpensive "practice" bullet, hits 4" lower, 3" higher, 2" left or 1" right...it's still gonna swing a ten inch square of steel. So YES, I use a swap load for non hunting purposeswithout changing zero's. Have seen lots of the guys that actually shoot a lot drive themselves crazy crankin' scopes back and forth for different loads/bullets because it's some sort of voodoo to work up a swap load. I don't play that game and prefer a simpler approach. Twistin' come ups via a drop chart is all the crankin' I want/need to do.

For those interested and following, OCW is only a moniker fora system of developing a load, and yes, it's been around for a long time call it what ever you want. Some folks stumble onto an OCW load without even knowing what it is.Thewords Optimal/Optimum only mean it's the best charge weight for application. It doesn't mean that a charge is in excess of published data and is only used within those limits.It's derived by actual shooting and seeing where the "groups" impact the paper in relation to the point of aim, POA. You can literally watch the groups walk around the point of aim, usually in a counter clockwise rotation with lower charge weights hitting low and to the right.It has little to do with group size initially and only addresses the barrel harmonics issues that affect "accuracy". Group size is/can be, reduced later if needed by adjustments to seating depth.

If every last bit of fps is your game then just stuffpowder and go for it, this isn't for you. If you are looking for a simpler method offinding an "accurate" load that is variable insensative so you can just go shoot worry free, then try it. I've posted a link here somewhere that explains it way better than I can so go read that...I've wasted more time than I wanted to talking to the Experts.

Should add too, that once the OCW load is worked up I simply refer to it as a "load"...because that is what it is.

My .243 Win. (sorry I'm using another name for it here)"pet load" is 36.8 grains of RL15 under an 85 grain TSX and does equally well in Lapua and Federal brass. That load flat out shoots. It'll swap "close 'nuff" with 85 grain Sierra HP's to like it. TSX's are zero'd at 250 yards and stay wellinside 1 1/4" with a warm barrel at that distance. That load killed my 12 year oldson's first three deer this past hunting season, his furthest was 260 yards. That load will do almost as well in the barrel, on a different rifle, thatI just sent out to be punched AI. I testedthe barrelat 150 yards and shot under a .900 inch group with a slammed together, unbedded McMillan, Rem 700with 7X glass...just a hair over 1/2 MOA. Will be looking for bug holes when the project comes to an end and the AI R&D is done.

Don't tell me my chitt don't work...