Early on for me....steps and sticks/ladders (not to mention the wallet)got one just so high...usually 10-15 feet. I did okay, but will admit that I've done better latelyin a self-climber when topping out at 20'. That said....I've had three or foursemi-permanent stands within recent memory...each around 15'..+/-. One had the sun come up directly behind it duringthe best segment of the season (I like to say I planned it that way, but I'd be lying )and the other three had a cedar tree, or evergreen,that stood at my height, directly behind/beside the tree I was in. All of them were awesome!!!.....deer have been everywhere around those trees (from 0 to wayyyy beyond shooting distance) andI have never gotten busted. Taken several deer from each set up....let many more walk. Sometimes it isn't necessarily the height...but the help you get from what is immediately around you. Gimme an evergreen and a good tree to sit in and they can be money in the bank!!!