again guys, thanks for your help. i have been toying with the layout myself and i think the 12x14 will be ok since the majority of the trips will only have 2 guys in my tent anyway. the only trips with 3 or 4 guys would be in the summer when a stove isnt necessary.

my original plan was to go with atleast a 14x16 but i decided against that for a few reasons. first like i said most of the trips will only have 2 guys all that room would be nice but basically unused. second the area i like to hunt a large tent would seriously limit the areas i could set up camp, atleast without a lot of clearing small trees, rocks, and sage brush. and third and probably least significant, but i would need a bigger stove to heat a tent that much bigger and it would take that much more wood to keep warm.

guys i really do appreciate the time and thought you have put into your posts you guys have helpedmore than you know. if there is anything else we havent covered yet lets keep it coming