thanks guys for you feedback. we never saw him leave the cover of brush so we didnt think he went anywhere boy were we wrong. thanks for telling me about patience i sure do need to remember that. but if i should tell you a little more if i dont bore you with another long post i seems to me like my bullet never opened up we waited for about a half hour even tho we thought he didnt come out of the brush and we didnt hear anything cross the creek i guess it was excitement (while i set here and shake my head lol) but he never bleed that much at all the hole time we were tracking him we were following only 50 cent piece spots of bright red blood even when he went up the hill the most was dollar sized and thanks skeeter i will do that i will try both grains and see what works i always sight my gun at 100 yards every year thanks!