Thanks for the replys.One reason for me looking at the youth models is the LOP and weight.The youth models fit my son better and I feel it is important for a newer shooter to be comfortable with the gun in his hand.I have a 30-06 auto he has shot but its heavy and does not fit him well.The 30-06 recoil did not seem to be a problem for him,as he has shot a lot of shotgun rounds already.This fall will be his first deer season he can hunt.He' s ready as he has been by my side for a number of years every day during hunting season no matter what the weather,blood or guts.so I have several months to get a gun but would like to pick one up by summer to get some shooting with it in.Thanks again. TOM