jeepkid, I am sorry to hear this. I didn't hear about this until today. We have several out there that are using our .223 on yotes with great success. If you wish to contact me off list I would be glad to provide you with contact information on those using the ammo at present. I am not here to defend S1 other than to say he had nothing to do with the misconception over the "gut shot" and to say that he has not spread any BS about our product. It is what we claim it is and we have shown this time and again to many in the Law enforcement community. If I knew of a gathering of hunters where we could demo like we do with Law enforcement we would be glad to do so. Also, when we demo for Law enforcement, we insist on using their weapon systems so that there is no question of us using tricked out weapons.