Sam,[/align][/align]Ok, this is a good part of the topic, most don't stop an think about. [/align][/align]A dog is very smart when you work with and help them figure out how to handle....the work, the handle, hunt, game, and retrieve if necessary. What tends to happen is the person gets in a hurry because it don't see an immediate response in what was taught today.......the people don't allow the space of learning to be shown by the dog. So they start trying something different, dog still don't show, so they change again.....before you know it dogs all boogered up, it don't know which way to turn, and then it turns into the dogs fault, never the person's. The person did not stay consistent with the program.[/align][/align]Dogswill learn by both means, if you will have the patience to let them. You teach steady work, by repetition...in different situations. The association, is overlayment of the bird into the fieldwork of repetition........it all stays the same, bird flush, you use ecollar, you say whoa if ya need......it all comes back to just stop and stand. When you teach the dog how to stop and stand, the exact way you taught it...."HERE".....teach it the same way"THERE" that way there is no confusion. Its just like retrievers, sit means sit....why say stay? Dogs don't understand English...stay would mean sit also.....right??[/align][/align]You mentioned the motions......the training program....along with repetition, an association..........is the motions. If you don't have the dog on a check cord an have it under control....along with the bird....what will get learned by the dog.....that it can get away with anything it wants. As we see with all the internet dog boogers, most get in a hurry to get the dog off the check cord, and free run with e-collar. So it is really a mis-read of the dog. If you set the dog and the bird up, to beunder a controlled situation, the dog will learn, because there is no room for slips.When the dog isn't allowed slips, or major slips, it tightens up on the staunchness, before you know it, you can turn your back on the dog, and not have to get the bird outta there, dog is showing you its understanding what we have taught it. It is trying to be steady.[/align][/align]When you move to the front and get the bird up, because of dog coming with you.....check cord don't need to be off, he isn't showing you anything but not being ready to go to the next part of training. Or if half way does it right, Or lets say 4 outta5 times, over the last 3-4 days....its still not right, the dog hasn't gotten enough under his belt to have the fair corrections needed. That is a situation where you cant trust what the dog has shown you before. It isn't ready to move on.[/align][/align]A dog will always read the voice the eyes and the touch. We have to decipher when or what to do. Some dogs wiggle outta there skin when we speak, so don't do it, some will do on the touch, don't do it. You can pet an talk to when the session is done. Keep the dog tight through the work, so it doesn't slip, and before you know it, dogs turning out to be a class act. I don't whoa a dog, I am not going intimidate the dog to do what I ask. I show it an build from there. If it don't wanna point what it smells, bump the bird, we shouldn't be pointing the bird for it, people say its not why they teach it.[/align]But it sure does overlay into the bird work, very, often. Hope this helps you out Sam, Thanks, Jonesy[/align]