I tell you what, you should try a box of those new Federals with flitecontrol wad. THey work really good for 40-50 yard shots, but they don't open up that well for 20-30 yard shots. Also sometimes if you have a vented or a ported choke it will pull your wad open more and make your patteren open up faster. Especially with those flitecontrol wads they arn't suggested. But I like everyone says, a lot has to depend on your gun and choke combo. Seems no two types shoot the same for some reason. Good luck