I shot the "old stuff" and it was the best that I've shot as well. Too bad they don't make it anymore. I'd have to agree that for an "over the counter" shell, that the Winchester super duper superior extended extreme elite shells are very good.I've seen some very good results from the 3.5" Hevi-13 Bronze2-1/4 oz. loads as well. My friend shot some of the Hevi-13 with a Indian Creek .665 and his patterns were almost as good as my Nitros.