I' ve used them to test accuracy and one year because funds were tight, but I sure wouldn' t choose them over ANY model of winchester. They' re good enough for hunting, but IMHO they' re basically what you pay for, just good enough. They' ve never given regular expansion in any of my tests nor my deer and their accuracy isn' t good enough in my rifles while the winchesters almost all shoot the same (and very well) in all of my rifles, so I don' t have to have a different type of ammo for each gun. I guess I shouldn' t dog on them so much, they are absolutely capable of doing it well enough that no one should be worried taking them afield, it' s just that they are far from my first choice.