Well, most pizza joints are also ABC on... but that is neither here nor there. There is a difference between a school and a pizza joint. A huge difference. Infact, I will give you a true to life... yes it happened example. Hurricane Katrina.
To start off, I reckon, there haven’t been a whole lot of pizza joint shootings on TV, but the mall, church and other similar shootings recently have been all over TV though. Malls and churches, like schools, often have a very diverse mix of people in them, and sometimes there are problems.
Let me tell you what is also not on TV. Stories in which citizens lawfully defended themselves from criminals and/or psychopaths through the use of weapons carried on their person. There are many such stories they could pick up, more in fact, than the rampages. That doesn’t keep with their agenda, however, and gets buried in the myriad of bad news they always try to push.
Also like schools, sometimes psychopaths go to malls or churches and so forth to try to kill a lot of people and then themselves. Neither place should be a criminal empowerment zone as a result. This is the best reason I can think of to allow carry, in order to put a stop to people like this in a hurry if they do pose a problem.
The Katrina thing is more a result of giving handouts and the feelings many in the region have of entitlement to things they do not necessarily deserve than the school situation. This is more of a political topic, however, and so I’ll end discussion of that line right there.
In colleges and universities, which are what I am referring to when I say “school”, the situation is not the same as having a bunch of thugs thrown into a stadium after their homes were destroyed. The Katrina thing is interesting but it isn’t even close to this particular debate. If anything, all the gang members out there should be more evidence that concealed carry is necessary.
Another difference in schools vs Katrina, is the simple matter of choice. Students choose to go to colleges or universities. The people in the hurricane aftermath didn’t really get much of a choice. That is a huge difference. Chances are if someone wants to be somewhere, they will be less cranky or disagreeable than if they get thrown into a situation.
High school is irrelevant, I agree with you, and it is not what I have in mind when I say “school”. See above.
No it shouldn't be. But it is. Perpitrator is white male, brown hair, white shirt, blue jeans... gee that narrows it down.... it can and does happen. Cops spend plenty of time after the fact trying to sort everything out and figure who is who. The risk is inherent, and as you put it necessary, I agree.
I’m not sure what you mean with that. I’m talking about people in the same room as the shooter who know who the bad guy is. I’m talking about someone walking by in the hallway when the shooting starts and sees who the shooter is. These people can tell instantly who the bad guy is because he is the only one present who is shooting at a crowd of people for no apparent reason. That makes it extremely easy for a concealed weapon permit holder to identify and engage the target.
I don’t expect any concealed weapon permit holder to run across campus to try to intervene in that situation, because it is not their responsibility. Their responsibility lies in making sure themselves and those around them remain safe until the situation is over. Rushing across campus to try to save the day is not the wise nor prudent thing for them to do because if they do that, then they do stand a chance of being misidentified, arrested or shot under the assumption they’re one of the troublemakers. As a concealed weapon holder, if I’m not in the immediate vicinity of a situation (which I have been lucky enough to avoid yet), I will get as many people to an exit as possible rather than try to make my way across the mall or campus to try to engage the target.
On the other hand, if I am stuck between this “bad guy” and an exit or if those around me are, then yes, I will do my best to end the threat, in this case that means shooting the “bad guy”. In any case, to those in the area, who are getting shot at or those nearby, the shooter is very obvious.
This is a bit off base. Not saying it is wrong. But you need to look at your typical school shooter here: metal issues. Not really a prior criminal looking to snatch a purse or knock over a liquor store. Typically social outcasts. In the case of the criminal as it is defined for our purposes... yes, he is stupid... or should we say metally disturbed. At any rate, he is a few rounds shy of a full box so to speak. They are, also in the case of our school shooters, EXTREMELY suicidal.
Actually, there have been situations with these potential school shooters who have given up when confronted by persons with firearms. In fact, there was an incident before the VA Tech massacre in which a similar massacre was prevented by the “bad guy” being confronted by an armed individual. The guy just gave up when confronted. That doesn’t sound too suicidal to me. They actually showed that on the news in addition to the VA Tech stuff. I don’t have a link to the article, unfortunately, I just saw it on Fox News when they were doing the coverage of the VA tech massacre.
They feel like they cannot control anything in their lives. Same sort as kids who cut themselves... its a method of maintaining control... they control their pain. These school shooters feel power and control by playing God and striking out againest innocent people, and ultimately themselves. They are quite often too afraid of death to commit suicide, so they have to do something that pushes them over the edge... some choose "suicide by cop" which would ultimately happen anyway in most of these cases... but again, they long for control and take their own lives.
This seems mostly correct. This is why they pick places like schools, churches, malls, and other weapons free zones for their rampages. They are afraid of armed people cutting their “fun” short. Even if allowing CCW doesn’t work as a deterrent to the crazy person starting the rampage, it can darn sure end the rampage sooner than relying on the individual to get bored and shoot themselves. There is no way anybody should be left at the mercy of a crazy person.
Something tells me that the NCAA will buy metal detectors before opening up to concealed carry. I think most people would feel more comfortable with that alternative, I agree that it would become tedious. Honestly, I tend to side with you this one Tim. How many of us are sick of searches and what not at the airport (I am), right after 911 we were screaming for everyone to be searched.. spare no one... take Grandmas walker away and cut it open to check for C4... 7 years later and we just want to get on the damn plane already. And not only would economics be a problem at universities with metal detectors and blocking off entries/exits... fire code... talk about a catch-22.
The NCAA has nothing to say in the matter. It is only a matter of state law. If the state decides carry is ok, that’s that, and there isn’t a thing the NCAA can do about it. I think it would be far more expensive than you think to actually “secure” the campus by orders of magnitude. Not to mention you actually have to hire some decent quality guards who are going to cost more than minimum wage by quite a bit. You need someone who won’t run away from his/her post when threatened or attacked.
Security is an illusion in most cases. Security is something to make people “feel” safe. Most things companies or schools do for “security” do nothing to protect anybody from anything, including “weapons free zones”, because they only apply to honest law abiding people. There is no possible way to protect people from every single thing. Therefore people need to be able to be responsible for our own safety everywhere. That’s how it used to be, you know, before this culture developed of “just give them what they want” or “let the police handle it, it’s too dangerous to stand up for yourself”, or any number of the other lines of bovine excrement spoon fed through the media and big city chiefs of police intended to get people to just give in to the criminal element and crazy people.
Sometimes, the only possible solution is to fight back, and that can’t be done effectively in a weapons free zone.