i have looked at them they are good looking guns. haven't found a Tc renegade yet. I'm looking to go new i have around 900 saved to buy a new gun. i was going to get a new center fire in 270 or 30-06 but decided i would get a new traditional ml instead. i think I'm leaning toward the Lyman great plains in the 1 in 60 twist. shooting the patched round balls sounds like fun. but i want to find a renegade to look at. what about the Tc Hawkins. will the renegade or Hawkins shot the patched round balls OK. i have two 50 cal in lines so if I'm stuck with shooting patched balls in the Lyman , renegade, or Hawkins not that big a deal for me.