You know I was with MTElkSiper when he took his buck and I can asure you that he made an extremely effective first shot. The wound is the most horrible thing I have ever seen from any weapon but I have to say that I will be switching to the same broad heads MTElkSniper shot last year because of this one deer. The first shot did not exit because of the steep angle of the shot caused the arrow to hit the back bone. The second did not pass through because the deer was laying flat on the ground. It is not a thing to debate. It is just what happened. My fixed blades wouldn't go through a deer if I hit it was laying flat on the ground either. I don't know if MTElkSiper told you guys but we also got him taking this buck on video. It absolutely drops like a rock on the first shot and then the follow up does him in. He was sure a great deer.