Thanks for the input and I am definately not hung up on mag loads (they hurt to much) I just spent 40mins on ganders pb thread and noticed the trend 100+yrds still around 100gr more or less. Good info on the bullet by the way. I am just looking for input from current shooters and trends. I do dread the $$$ spent finding the load when I buy a ML. But pratice will payoff and by the way cayugadI am one of the acurate deprived people so I need all the advantage I can get.