I am not a huge fan of federal ammo but I tried out the black cloud's the other day and i was very impressed. The five ducks i used them on died before they hit the water no cripples or sporty ducks at all. I usualy shot the xperts and have to use a second or third shot to finish the deal but not with the black clouds. give them a try and at 20 bucks for 25 shells they are a little easer on the wallet.