bogobble, i must disagree with you on the doe issue . there are alot of does and we must control them . i believe the buck issue and the doe issue go hand in hand . the three point rule has allowed bucks to mature and with maturity comes wisdom deer style. these bucks know not to travel in the daylight when our noise is in the woods. they dont have to go far to breed . i have seen very good bucks and i mean good . but at night . my buddy saw one around 10 am crossing from one thicket to another across a road. it was huge. trees are being rubbed that are much bigger than years ago. i do believe that the buck to doe ratio has got to be closer than it is. this will cause these mature bucks to roam to breed . they can stay in stuff that we cant really hunt and be safe . i used to work at goodwin field in the afternoon we saw just hordes of does . the guys i know that hunt in the area dont kill good bucks but know they are there. today me and one of my members were out on four wheelers just riding . we saw 10 deer in three hours from 4 wheelers. i mean riding up on them and they just stand there and look at us. in nov that didnt happen. they had plenty to eat and didnt have to move around. the gun season or muzzle loader season i think needs to be extended into jan. not everyone hunts with a bow or wants to . i think you will see alot of deer in the coming months , if im wrong remind me.