Dan, I don't remember looking at the ones you mentioned... I haven't pulled the trigger yet as I'm waiting for $1,000 to be dumped onto my Rewards card from my company (good at Bass Pro and Cabelas, among others ). I'll check out the ones you mentioned... though I do think it's going to be hard to get past the sound of having 2,000 grams of Thinsulate wrapped around my feet while on stand in December!