The red hevi 13's never did anything for me also. The Rem. hevi shot 3.5 mags work the best for me, but just like the white 13's, they don't make them anymore. I found two boxes of them last year and bought them. I will be using themfor the next few years. I may try out the new Rem. Wingmasters this year. Ammo and guns have gone up in price in the past few weeks, so a box of 5 wingmasters will cost about 30 bucks[:'(]. I'm just curious how they do.