I agree. I think we can all learn something from this thread.

I also agree that in true fair chase conditions your outfitter really can't promise to put you on a mature buck. It's kind of like the stock market, past resultsare not always indicative of similarfuture returns but sometimes they can give you an idea of what you can expect.

What your outfitter can give you is good hospitality and their best effort. Slipshod possibly unsafe stands and a bucket to sit on doesn't really sound like a best effort at $5,800 a person.

Reading more and more threads on outfitters it really does seem like some have an "A" camp and a "B" (or even C or D) camp. One that they put their best effort into for celebrity hunters and the big tippers, and one where they put the blue collar guys who invested a serious % of their hard earned dollars in the hunt. I'm sure there are many reputable outfitters out there as well, but the temptation to oversell your capability to provide your best has to be a temptation. Buy a few extra tents and a college kid who somewhat knows the area and you can start a B camp and charge the same rate you've been charging everyone else. Before I booked an outfitter I would want to know how many hunts they are running simultaneously. That will also dramatically affect their ability to move you if the area that you are in that week turns out to be a dud for some reason or another. Sometimes they have someone already at every huntable area that they have and you are stuck whether the area is a hot or cold.

Of course I still have never hired an outfitter, but I've thought about it for a chance at a mature bull elk and a close to recordbook mule deer. I'm going to keep trying on my own hunting public land for a while longer though, I think it will mean more if I can get a trophy on a DIY hunt.