Just an opinion. But I really don' t like them. I not only look at groups when a gun is involved. To start with, I just don' t like the actions. The bolt seems very sloppy. I hate the stocks on most of there guns. I don' t like the fit with the action. So with all that, until I get really poor, I don' t like them. I mean about 10 years ago when I was on a budget, that would be the only gun for me. Only good thing I see with them is the barrel. I might like them if I replaced the stock, trigger, and bedded the thing properly but the foundation of the rifle is cheap. I mean the action of a rifle is the foundation. Barrels can be replaced, triggers replaced, stocks replaced but you are stuck with that action. For me, I will stick with 700 or mod70 actions and krieger barrels, and HS Precision stocks. I didn' t believe people when they were claiming the feeding to be flawed until I saw all the shells pop out of a savage action.